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"Building legacy through leadership: Leading through crisis with Peter Baines of Hands Across the Water"

Ros: I first became involved with Hands Across the Water back in 2013 before Jackson was even born. I joined one of the Hands Across the Water rides through Thailand myself, raising funds and connecting with a mission that has never left me. And I did this when Jackson was only a couple of years old. Now since then, my husband Clint has taken part in three rides himself, riding 500 kilometers over five days and also raising a minimum of $5,000 each time, and the ripple effect of this organization continues to inspire us as a family. But also, I know many in our community as well. I know you work in travel, so you'll understand this feeling, that deep sense of connection to people and places. You may remember exactly where you were during some significant world events, events like the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami, which has been turned into a movie now, or the Bali bombings. Our guest today was on the ground during those moments.

Peter Baines, who is an OAM, is one of Australia's leading voices in crisis leadership and international humanitarian work. He's a former forensic investigator with the New South Wales Police from which Peter led teams in response to some of the most devastating events of our time, from Bali to Thailand, Japan as well, and beyond that too. But his story doesn't stop at the scene where he was doing that work after witnessing the heartbreaking aftermath of the tsunami in Koh Lak in Thailand and the many children that were left without families, Peter founded hands across the water. It's a charity that's currently raised over $40 million and continues to change lives through connection, education and purpose driven experiences as well, looking towards the future with sustainability and not just being there on the ground when you know he needed to be there, but also thinking about the future. He's worked with global agencies like Interpol and the United Nations. He's advised governments, and also received multiple honors, including an Order of Australia medal and a royal decoration from the King of Thailand himself. He's also a celebrated author, and with his most recent book, leadership matters. Released in 2023.

Peter's story is one of Resilience Leadership and the power of doing good and how through shared purpose and travel, we can also create change that absolutely lasts. I hope you enjoy this episode that I was able to sit down with Peter and talk about his experience. So let's dive in. We'll link to all the show notes. Have everything there for you, but thank you so much for being a part of this journey.

Hi Pete, welcome to the Travel Agent Achievers podcast. I am absolutely thrilled that you are here.

Peter: My pleasure.

I was just talking to your lovely wife before about introverts and extroverts and myself, I'm a bit of an introvert, so I have been watching behind the scenes. I've been a past Friday with you, with hands across the water. My family has also done a number of rides with you as well. So I'm a little bit nervous having you here, but I am so grateful to have you on the Travel Agent Achievers podcast, because travel really, I feel started, or was, you know, a seed with Hands Across the Water. So before we get into how hands across the water all came about, can you just share a little bit about your background, from crisis training, yeah, the Australian Federal Police Force, and what, what was your role, yeah, in that sort of area.

Peter: Yes, I spent 23 years with New South Wales Police, and the main part of that for you know, 19 of those 23 I worked in the forensic area, and so was a crime scene examiner. So I would attend scenes of violent crime, of suicide, suspicious deaths, homicide, collect the evidence, interpret the evidence, and then present that to courts of inquiry, and I worked in Sydney. Had 10 years in Tamworth as a crime scene investigator. Then they're back to Sydney, where I was managing a number of the teams and offices across Sydney. And then I guess things changed a little bit with, with the Bali bombings of 2002. I went across as part of the Australian contingent to identify those who had died. And then only two years late, there was the Boxing Day tsunami, where there was somewhere between 250 and 300,000 people who were dying in Thailand. There was 5395 bodies recovered, and I would spend several months in Thailand leading both the Australian and the international teams in the identification of the bodies and the repatriation throughout the world.

Ros: Yeah, it's incredible work that you have done, and I'm sure that it's had an impact on you personally, not only professionally, over the years, when I read your book and also learnt more about what you had actually done, from my perspective as a travel professional, we come from the other side, where we're helping people actually explore this incredible planet. And I remember the Bali bombings, but from a different side of things, and also the tsunami and the impact that it had in many different countries, and my role was to really help those that had survived get out of them.

Peter: Yeah, sure. yeah.

Ros: And so when I heard your story and the work that you actually did back then, it made me feel as though there was some sort of alignment in how we work together and in similar situations from a travel professional, and also from your background, but I was looking at it thinking, we we hear, we see and we witness and help repatriate our clients. And one of my biggest strengths, and something that I speak to my travel clients about, is if the shit hits the fan, you want somebody like myself on your side to help get you out of situations and to bring you home safely wherever I possibly can, but from your side, you run into that crisis, and you're there to help people on the ground. So for me, I look at it and think I'm so grateful for people like yourself that are able to do the work that you do. How much work did you actually put into that crisis training to run into those sorts of experiences?

Peter: Yeah, I guess like your entire career is preparing for it. And you know, the only difference with Bali and Thailand was location and scale. Like if our work from a forensic point of view, the the application of forensic science is it's pretty basic forensic science in the identification of the bodies. And you know, we're looking for, there's three primary ways to identify someone in these circumstances, and it's, it's dental DNA or fingerprint. And so it's not complex forensic science by any stretch of the imagination. And you know, the work that we did in processing a homicide scene, for example, on a domestic level, was a lot more complex than identifying bodies. But the thing that makes it complex in in those large crisis and disaster situations is the location, what you have to work with and and then the scale, you know, and you know, in Bali, there was a unique challenge where we weren't wanted in the country. And there was, we were all of the forensic staff and the police were at the Kartika Plaza in that's where we were accommodated. And the hotel was guarded by the military, 24/7 and as you'd know, the rest of the hotels were all closed down because no one was going to Bali and but where we stayed, it was full, but there was threats to the hotel. It was bomb threats and threats you were there, yeah, because that was that you because, because we were from the police and were Australian, those who committed the acts of terror at both the Sari Club and Patty's bar, obviously weren't, you know, happy that we were there. And so that threat to your personal safety was significant and and I remember flying out of Bali and one of our forensic biologists who came over with us, you know, I said to her, as we were boarding the flight to fly home, I said, you know, Virginia, you just look so exhausted. And she said, I just haven't slept more than two hours a night while being here because of the fear that she had for her personal safety. So that was something that was,
you know, certainly unique to that job, where you contrast that to Thailand, which was just a humanitarian response. And when we would leave the hotel, we were there for a month at a time, and the entire time that we were there, we were dressed in a clothes that certainly signified that we were police and were working, not not police uniform as per se, but Apollo shirts with police and so forth. And it was very clear anyway, and and when we were leaving to travel home, we'd be dressed in civilian clothes, and the hotel staff would gather, you know, without any type of structure, but would come to the foyer to see us off, and they would be in tears in appreciation of what we'd done. And and so it was. It was very different, the two jobs, but you know, your question of, what was the preparation? Well, the entire career was in preparation. So turning up there, as I said, apart from it being in different location and the scale of it being something beyond what any of us had seen, the actual forensic work wasn't all that different, you know, and stepping into sitting in the airport in Denpasar with a work colleague, and he said, This is the biggest job we'll ever be involved in. 202 people died, and two years later, you know, I was walking from a helicopter towards a temple at taupar, where there was three and a half 1000 bodies in one temple, and so, yeah, very different jobs, that's for sure.

Ros: Is that something that you can prepare yourself for going into to do that? Is it that, hey, I'm here to do a job? Or did it hit you when you arrived in Thailand, the scale of it?

Peter: Yeah, I guess the, you know, I saw the news break on the on the TV with, with, with Thailand, and got a phone call hours after, and was told that to finish my holidays and return to work, And I was heading to Thailand and and, and I'd seen the scale of the, you know, the those lives lost grow in the news and and arriving into Thailand. I'd never been to Thailand before, and flew from Singapore across Phuket, and was basically an empty flight, because no one was flying in. And, you know, it was quite surreal to hop on this plane, and you know, there'd be literally not more than a dozen people on this flight, and then arriving into Phuket Airport again, there was no one arriving into the country, but exiting through customs and immigration. What covered the walls of the Bucha airport were posters put up by family members of their lot, loved ones who were lost and hadn't been identified. And that night, went straight from the airport to the hotel. Next morning, I flew on a heli from the south of Phuket to cow lack and that flight was up the coastline, and that was where I saw the indiscriminate nature of the destruction to the hotels and then arriving as the helicopter came into land in tacular power, I could smell the death. And once you've smelt a decomposing human body, it's never a smell that's mistaken or it's unforgettable. And so coming in where there was three and a half 1000 decomposing bodies, that was the first thing that, you know, that I was really aware of the and then walking through the grounds at the temple was the grounds were just covered with decomposing bodies. There was no ice. There was no refrigeration at that time. And you know, and I guess to your question, can you prepare for it? Well, it was unprecedented. You know, the job that we did in in Thailand was 1000s bigger than 911 therefore, 1000s bigger than anything could have been seen before, and remains to that, to this day, the biggest. A DVI exercise in identifying bodies. And so it was unprecedented, and the focus was on the job. And it wasn't, you know, wasn't you know too big to lose sight of what we were there to do.

Ros: Does adrenaline hit you at that point?

Peter: Yeah, absolutely, job to do, and we need to get in? Yeah, absolutely. And it was really interesting, like, like, I build a model called crisis clock of the four stages that you move through, just depending upon the length of the and it works like, the model sits really nicely across a four week deployment, you know, because we'd arrive into Thailand and that plane across, you're thinking, do I have the skills? Am I the right person? You know, I don't speak Thai. I've never been a Thailand before. Who do I report to? Who reports to me? Where will I stay? How will I get around all of these questions and this huge, you know, adrenaline, anxiety, you know, there's all of these emotions and questions that are sitting in your head, and that kind of sits for like the first week, almost imposter syndrome, in a way, no, not really, no. I think it's just, you know, going into something unknown, yeah, you know, and, and it was always the same, you know, when I worked in Thai, worked in Tamworth, and I might have a three hour drive to a homicide scene, is you were visualizing, you were preparing. You were thinking, what's going to be like? You know, what am I going to do? Where's the evidence going to be, all of that stuff. And this was just saying, but bigger and a longer trip, you know? And but that first week, you sit in that kind of frantic stage. Then the second week in the second stage of model you go into, you know this controlled stage where you probably at your most productive, where you know what to do, you know where to go, you know who reports to you, who you report to. You're not the newest person. Someone else has come in by then, and you're functioning at the you know, the probably the most effective part in that second quarter, then the third quarter is when the energy's dropped, you're the least effective, and that's because you're sick of getting up at the same time to eat the same buffet breakfast, to get on the same bus to go and do the same things. You know, for three weeks you've been moving, you know, bodies around and and you're missing home, and it's you're missing a family, and it's all become a bit routine and, and that's that, what I'd suggest is probably the most, least productive stage is that third week, and that's when, as a leader, we need to support our teams in that third quarter. That's when you want to incentivize and support and be present motivate them.

Because, you know, when we think about, you know, we run projects within businesses and so forth, and and we have a big kickoff and a launch and all the rest. At the beginning, I'd suggest, if you haven't got the motivation at the beginning, you've got the wrong people. You know, it's that third quarter where you need to motivate the people. Then the fourth stage is when the energy comes back up, because you're going home. You know, there's an end to your rotation. There's continuity with someone else handing over. And so those four stages are, you know, it's certainly what I've seen in our deployments. And then even, you know, in in managing projects, if we can be aware of the energy and the flow and what so we're in a better chance of supporting our people.

Ros: Absolutely, from what you're just saying, even as travel professionals that goes through the whole cycle of putting together somebody's experience or their travel plans. Yeah, and as business owners as well, yeah, putting together the projects. And I'm just thinking of some that I've recently done, like it feels like it's just that slob we're not getting anywhere. It's all the big stuff that's happening, but then it just changes. And yeah, goes into that fourth cycle, and you go, Oh, wow, yes, look at all the momentum that's happened. And it felt like the hard stuff was happening, but then it comes through,

Peter: Yeah, and I don't think like having an awareness of those four quarters doesn't mean that you won't go into them, but what it means is that as a leader, if your team is in that third quarter, if it's that time where the energy is really low, and that's when you can do something to bring them up, and you can just acknowledge that this is where we are, it will change. It's not falling apart. But this is just part of the process.

Ros: Part of the process, absolutely. So when you arrived in Thailand and you started going through all of these stages as well, at what point was hands across the water? Something that came to mind for you?

Peter: Yeah. Hands. So I was there, you know, within days of the first police arriving. And so that was like beginning of January, end of December and Hands. It didn't come about until my last rotation, which was September of 2005 and then it was really needing a group of kids in Thailand and who were living in a tent, or lost their families or lost their home, and the tent wasn't some temporary structure, it was their home. And it was only when I returned to Australia, had a conversation with a colleague from the UK who had been working with and we said, let's raise some money. I set up hands in Australia. And you know, the rest is history.

Ros: That's right. Well, that's 20 years ago now. A lot has happened, yeah, in that time, what do you feel it was some of those initial challenges that really rose for you as a leader, but also setting up a charity in a foreign country? And, I mean, I can only imagine it was the gut instinct and the heart that said, I really want to do something to help these kids. What is it that I can do?

Peter: Yeah, it was, you know, I guess meeting the kids, and what I've always said is I couldn't change what had happened, that they'd lost their families, lost their homes, but it felt within my capacity to change what happened next, and by raising money. And, you know, I returned from Thailand and had never had any experience in the philanthropic space. Never, you know, did have done anything like the fundraising was in the police, so wasn't connected into corporate or anything like that. And I guess the you know, there was a whole lot of naivety around what I was doing. And, you know, it probably helps to remember that all I committed to do was raise money to build the first home, and I thought that would be the end of the project. It was only when I went over there to open the first home. I thought, well, what happens now? So I never set it up, thinking this will be a two year, five or 10 or 20 year venture. I started hands just to raise money for the first home. And I thought that would be it. So there was no entity, there was no structure, there was no compliance, there was no governance, there was no charity, per se, I just put money into a social club account and then took it, gave it, and in, contributed to the building of the first home. And then, as I said, it was only when I was over there for the opening, at the first time I thought, Well, where does the money come from? Now? Who's going to support these kids and and who's going to support the staff and provide the funding? So I returned to Australia in 2007 and then really set up the entity that would be what it is today.

Ros: So it was, it was that moment whilst you were there that had the shift to say, what's next?

Peter: Yeah, yeah. Like it was, I can picture it sitting in the back of the car to leave from the opening of the home that we'd built to drive back to the hotel. And I thought, well, what happens now and realize the commitment from raising the money hadn't been finished. It was really just a start.

Ros: Yeah, how many kids did you initially house in those?

Peter: I started with 32 there was 32 kids in the tent that I met and we opened, we built a home 32 and then within 12 months, it had doubled. We'd had 64 and the question is, Well, where were they coming from? And the thing is, and I've seen this, I've worked in crisis areas in Saudi Arabia, Japan, Indonesia, Thailand, of course, Australia, after a crisis or disaster, lots of people turn up, governments, NGO, charities, corporate, turn up and say, we're here to support put their flag in the ground. But too many leave too quickly, and just because the media has moved on just because for the charities, the dollars to stop rolling in doesn't mean the challenges have gone away. So the reason that our numbers grew so quickly and continued to grow was because organizations who had responded in the immediate aftermath of the crisis and provided housing and temporary support were withdrawing from Thailand, and the challenges for these kids were still there. Of course, their parents hadn't come back, and of course, they never will. So then they found their way to us, and here we are, 20 years on where the kids who continue to come to us today, come from the government who reach out to us, and they've got nothing to do, obviously, with the tsunami anymore, but reach out to us and because there's not the other options, really, within these areas of Thailand on which we operate.

Ros: It's so interesting to hear from your perspective, seeing and being witness to companies, governments, NGOs, or having an impact, but then also withdrawing. And I'm sure that that is just that's part of the life cycle and how it all works, yeah, but you made that conscious decision to say, we're going to stay, and we're going to continue to help and do something different here. And 20 years later, there is so much that you have been able to achieve. And one of the things that I absolutely love about Hands Across the Water and the impact that you have is that sustainability and how you not just looking at the temporary solution but the future.

Peter: Yeah.

Ros: And from my own experience, I remember writing myself and leaving my two year old son at home to go and ride, yeah, 500 kilometers, and you joined us out on that ride with Business Blueprint and Dale and seeing firsthand the sustainability for the future, how the orphanages there were able to create an income and provide education for the kids so that it was hope? For them, was that something that you felt needed to happen to provide hope? To look at different solutions for longevity?

Peter: Yeah, I guess there's a couple of aspects to that. One is the sustainability of income generation for us as the charities. Where's the sustainability around that? Then the second is the that support and the opportunities for the kids and, you know, I've long said that if, if all we do is provide access to food, shelter and medical needs, that's not good enough. You know, if we use donors money just to build homes and meet the kids immediate needs that's not really creating long term solutions for the kids. And, you know, I think there's two measures. One, we can't influence the reasons why that first generation of kids comes to us. So today, like we receive kids who will come from a single mum who might be have problems with addiction and can't care for her child. They might come to us from a home where there's abuse or neglect, or might come from an elderly grandparent who simply can't look after them, so we can't influence the circumstances before the kids get to us, but it's there's a responsibility on us to create support structures and education and sustainability so the kids who leave our home at whatever time that is when they have children of their own, they're equipped so they can care for their kids, they can provide for their kids, so that second generation isn't coming to us, and that's what we can influence, and that's a measure of our success. Is what happens when it comes time for the kids to be to that end, we've had over 46 kids now graduate from university we were there only a week ago and saw six kids heading off to university, a new crop of kids from BTN studying things like marine biology, law engineering and, you know, other degrees and and These kids are now becoming, you know, contributing. They're contributing to society. They'll go on the whole meaningful job so be in a place to support their own children, their own family. They'll contribute taxes to the economy and and that's that measure of success, and that's where sustainability comes for us. On that side, is not just providing access to these services while the kids are young and cute, it's what happens when they leave. Is where we measure ourselves.

Ros: And creating opportunities for homes as well to be self sustaining.

Peter: Yeah, that's right. Like it's hard for the homes to generate income. You know, like running a business is hard enough, but running a home for, you know, anything up to 100 kids and then thinking you can generate income to support those kids is a bit idealistic. So we take a lot of that responsibility for the income generation and in Thailand, you know, the two biggest industries for employment is hospitality and tourism, and then agriculture. And two of our projects for 2025
is the building of a hospitality Training Center. So in your industry, with travel and so forth. You know, you speak to the general managers, or the HR managers in the hotels, and they say that, what's your biggest challenge? Staff.

Ros: A 100%.

They just need staff. Yeah, and, you know, we were staying at the hotel. At the end of the last bike, I was talking to the GM there. I said, you know, where are you at? How's things? He said, the biggest challenge I face is and is, and it's temporary staff for him that you know, according to seasonal demands and conference needs. And so what we're doing with our hospitality Training Center is that we will provide training for the kids that doesn't replace university programs, doesn't it provide, doesn't replace the VET sector, but what it does is it gives them initial training that directly leads to employment. So we don't provide training if there's no direct avenue into employment. So it's not training for qualifications, per se. It's training for employment. So if we can say to the GM, what do you need? He might say, it's F and B. It's Bucha house. It's room service, whatever it is. We say, if you've got a training program for how you like the beds made and the rooms clean, he says, yes. I said, Well, give that to us. Well, let us train the kids in this who are interested in getting into the sector. We'll train them to your standard when they finished. Are you likely to give them a job? He goes, absolutely, I can't get trained staff. So these kids haven't spent four years at university learning how to make a bed, but they've now got a pathway directly into the sector, so they've got employment. So that brings meaningful employment to them. It's probably more than what they were getting paid, and it gives them an entry way into that sector. So should they wish them to go on and study further? Well, they can do that, but they don't have to wait four years to find out if the group degree is the right one for them. So that's what we're doing within the hospitality Training Center. The center that we got is something that we built in 2011 it's got 13 rooms in it, which we will run as a as a hotel, licensed hotel offering low tariffs, so you can go and stay there and know that those that are doing your room, those that are serving your breakfast to students, yeah, so it's and that will bring income. It'll bring sustainable income, it'll create training and employment opportunities, and meets the needed sector who are looking for for staff. So that's one aspect, then where the other area we're working is the agricultural learning center.

So again, back to the big hotels are driven by requirements and quality standards and so forth from corporates. So one of the areas where they by 2026 in Thailand mandated that to get some of the larger hotel to get their corporate clients, they have to have battery free hen X, the biggest challenge in Thailand is sourcing cage free eggs. Wow. So what we're we're working with an organization that's worked as it's built a center in China and Indonesia, and we were building a chicken shed that will then supply cage free hens that will then be sold on to the hotels, because demand far outstrips supply. There'll be a number of years for supply to catch up, because there's no incentive on the local Thai farmers to convert their battery free, to cage free egg production. We can, we can build this center on land that the government is going to give us 30 year lease for. Again, it gives us opportunities for the kids who don't want to go to university, who don't want to go into hospitality, want to be farmers. One of our properties up in in the northeast of Thailand, in the Isan region, agriculture is huge. They're already excited. The opportunities are coming down. So it's again, it's another way of creating sustainable income. And the income from both of those centers will feed back into our foundation to reduce the operating costs and the fundraising that we've got to do.

Ros: So, speaking about the fundraising and, you know, understanding that those sorts of opportunities aren't going to necessarily cover the costs of what it's like to, you know, keep those homes operating over there, what happens here in Australia and New Zealand to create an income or to get the money to support hands across the water over there?

Peter: Yeah. So as in Australia, 60,000 charities, so it's a whole lot of competition, right? And a lot of people who, unless they're heavily invested in a charity will look at branded charities that they recognize, that they know, and they'll make a contribution. They'll, you know, some people, that's Charity begins at home. They want to support local charities. And, you know, in the type of world we live at now, where we pop from country to country, to continent to continent, I don't really buy into that charity brings up, starts at home, because say, well, give me the name of five people in the suburb next door that need charity, and you can't so, you know. But for us as a as a charity operating in Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, in raising funds to go to Thailand, we, you know, we've got to have a point of difference. And for us, we need to raise about $2 million a year and to to fund.

Ros: That’s no small amount.

Peter: It is not insignificant. And the thing that's, you know, working against us right now is the strengthening of the Thai bar and the weakening of the Australian dollars. So, you know, as in travel. You know this, you deal with it all the time. If you can predict and forecast where the currency is going to be in 12 months, let me know how you do it.

Ros: Oh my gosh, yeah, we, we talk about that all the time.

Peter: Well, the problem for us is, you know, one of our biggest sources of income is these charity bike rides that you've spoken about, which you've experienced. And you know, they're outstanding experiences. But, you know, we run a bike ride today, and we need to launch 12 months away bike ride. Well, the bike ride that we ran in January, when we're paying our bills, you know, some 10,11, months on from when we've launched it, the the bar had dropped 20% Wow. So all of the income that was coming into our social enterprise through the right registrations, it disappeared in currency.

Ros: Yeah.

Peter: So, you know, it's a big thing for us to to try to set pricing, and I know I'm, you know, speaking to an audience who gets this. But because for us, you know the ride cost when I talk about our charity bike rides, the ride component is your accommodation, internal flights, transfers, meals, every cost that you have on the ground is your ride costs. And then there's the fundraising. Now we've got to balance the ride costs really carefully, because if we put that up too high to try to hedge currency movements, then the cost for a family or for an individual goes and you know, our Case in point, a $4,000 bike ride that has a 20% increase that's heading up towards $1,000 increase once you consider CPI hotel increases, and then the individual goes, Wow, that was fourth grand last year. Or I've just done it was four grand. You put $1,000 on you. Are you getting a bit greedy? No, we're just trying to cover costs. Oh, and if we lose someone because that cost has gone up, what we also lose is their fundraising. Yes, so and we've got to raise 20% more in our fundraising to achieve what we did last year because of the change in currencies. So our biggest income source from the charity side is these charity bike rides, and the reason they're so successful is because there's a meaningful return in value for those who participate. So you know, hoping yours was a great experience, but the reason we get our return riders and we have for our January bike rides, which are our open rides, we'll have, you know, in that high 60, low, 70% of return riders, and they come back, and we've got riders who have been riding with us for 10 years now. They believe in the charity, they believe in how we do the work, where the dollars are going. But the reason they come back is what they get out of it, 100% and that has to be our focus. Is that if we can deliver value to you, first and foremost, you're likely to stay and to take that up another level. It's almost like, you know, when a business decides to support charity more often than not, it's a cost center to the business. Now we at hands can turn that into a profit center, then you're likely to stay and the profit center can be in attracting new clients, retention of staff, brand differentiation, new markets to operate. And we see that in our in our corporate bike rides, the reason people come and the reason they keep returning is because it's good business.

Ros: Yeah.

Peter: And if we can help you turn your support from charity or for charity from a cost center to a profit center, you'll remain, and that's our job.

Ros: It's really interesting hearing you say that, because as somebody who's done the ride, I haven't done it a second time because I hand baton to my husband, I say that as yet I need to keep the heat down and my blood pressure rip that back up. For me, it's the heart and the reason why our family loves Hands Across the Water, or one of the reasons behind it is because of the impact that it has and seeing where the money goes, but how it also impacts us as a family, having a child ourselves and and understanding from a Travel perspective, in my case, the story behind it, and as we spoke about, initially from your side and the work that you did, but also from my side as a travel professionalism travel agent and my counterparts and colleagues all over the world, the work that we do in order to help people get to those destinations. But I love how it impacted me personally, and that is the story that I see time and time again from writers, the impact that it has on them personally, yeah, not even thinking about big business or how it can turn into a profit center. Yes, the heart that comes from them. But I can see from the business side of things, how it can how they need to think that way?

Peter: Well, you look at the ride that you did with business blueprint, and you know why Dale continues to bring people and has been doing so for the last 10 years, tell me that it's not good for the Blueprint community. It's not a unique offering within the in that type of mentoring and education space, what he does, how it brings him closer to his clients, how his clients become closer to one another. It forms his stickiness. It forms this, you know, the I just did the last couple of days of the most recent blueprint ride, and there's people that are, you know, been riding for there were several of them that are written eight times at you know, one of them had two of her colleagues, nothing to do, blueprint, who came along. She's, she was there on an eighth ride. Brendan was there with his daughter for the second time. And, you know, they come partners, even. So I know husband and wife, but go together, and then many of them, yeah, lots of them, you know. And it's, it's really important that you know from a charity that's entrusted with donors money, is how we use the money. So there's gotta be good transparency, and we have that on our website, where all of our financial records the last 15 years, anyone can access them. They're not behind a firewall. They're just anyone can access all of our financial records and see over the last 15 years, where I've got our monies went. We've got our impact report to talk about not just where the money goes, but how effective it is, and so that that's really important for people to be able to see that and have confidence, that when they're talking about how charity dollars are used, that they can do that with confidence. And then, you know, thirdly, is that that personal experience, and one of our writers said this many years ago, as I fundraise for the kids, but I ride for myself.

Ros: Yes, and I'd agree with that, yeah, absolutely. It's also the integrity and the transparency, as you say, to show where the money is going. Yeah, and I know that you've spoken at a number of travel industry conferences, and here in Australia, with a number of companies that have taken their conferences over to Thailand, you can see as well the impact that the travel industry also has, I'm sure, on Hands Across the Water. And I'd love to be able to, you know, do something with the travel industry, bring more people over to understand it and support because I see how the alignment works for both of us from both different angles. I just absolutely love it. Can you share, I know a game, for instance, down at BTN and his story, but is there, is there anything that stands out to you from any of those kids that you've seen grow up? I mean, can you share a little bit about game story and what he does now? Because I know that that's it,

Peter: Yeah, I think, I think, like, it's a really interesting time in Hands, where as we get to, you know, 20 years now, what we're seeing and, and it's only really the last couple of years, is that we're seeing kids that have been with us for, you know, 10,15, years that have that came for different reasons, came as young children who have left the home have graduated or gone to university. With our support, we've supported 46 kids through uni and with all different types of degrees and and what we're seeing is a number of them who have studied something of their own choice to allow them to come back and work at the home and contribute to the next generation. And you speak to the kids and this that are graduating and and they're saying that they want to repay, and this is no expectation or pressure or anything from our point of view. And personally, I think in the development for the kids, the best thing is that they leave the home, go and work outside. Then in a couple of years, if they want to come back, then they've had a broader experience. And but we're seeing the kids come back. And you know, game was our first graduate from from high school who said he wanted to go to university, and we'd said would support him. And he studied law at university, he graduated, and we gave him a job as our general manager in Bangkok, looking after our seven properties at the time and and through an illness and cancer with Corona who was the director of BTN,, she would pass away as a result of cancer in 2017 and one of the last things that she said was that she wanted gain to come back and be the director of the home and and, and he returned and, and he said to me, I think I need to return to university to study something relevant, because the law is not really going to help me. And, and so he studied his MBA on weekends, and, and as a result of the marks that he got, he was then offered a full time, a full scholarship to do his doctorate. So he's doing his PhD through Anu in Canberra right now. And, and he's the director of the home in which he grew up, you know, and we've got a number of kids who have, as I said, have been with us, who have graduated and found their way back to Hands in some way, and, and I think that's one of the things that I really love, that to see that, and when it's the kids choice, You know, when they've got, you know, we have no influence over what they study or where they go. We support them, we help them with internships and placements and but when they're saying, you know, I've graduated, I've got my degree, I want to come back and, you know, it's really nice to see that and to have that relationship with those you know, they're not kids anymore.

Ros: They're adults. That's right. Get to see them all grow up. Yeah, absolutely beautiful. What's the vision now for Hands Across the Water? Because you've just over 20 years and what do you see is the future?

Peter: Yeah, I think, you know, coming going through COVID was, you know, I guess it was that real thing for us is to, you know, we can't rely on the shared experiences, you know, the bike rides. You know, who would have thought in 2019 that we would grind to a halt. There'd be no, you know, travel, and no bike rides and and you know, it was only through great work of those in hands, and you know, that we were able to survive and had the funds to get us through. And I think it became clear to us that we couldn't just rely on the bike rides and one of our corporate supporters, we had to do something different. So, you know, we we've invested in staff in Thailand. We've established a, you know, an international board that has a greater, you know, reach and presence into Thailand. And you know, one of the challenges that we faced is if I approach corporate here in Australia for support, you know, their standard response is, no, we don't. We don't support international charities. But here's the kicker, if I approach corporate in in Thailand for support, they say, No, you're an Australian. Charities don't support international charities. I go, hang on. All the money we raise is only coming, and there's only ever gone to Thailand. So, you know, it was clear to us that we had to change the face of Thailand in or chase, change the face of Hands In Thailand and and build awareness. And part of that we did through this run in December, “A run to remember”, and where we're able to raise funds and profile and look at the future operations in Thailand. And as I said, with the hospitality Training Center and the AG Center, both of those steps towards that.

Ros: Yeah, there's certainly a positive outlook on what's ahead for Hands.

Peter: Yeah, absolutely like, it's, you know, it's, it's really exciting. It's, you know, some great opportunities. There's, you know, only took a call, you know, half an hour ago about a new company wanting to to get on board with the corporate bike rides. Someone who's done one of our blueprint rides before has been at the Partners Program at BTN. Their MD has been to BTN. They're really keen to get involved. Get involved. Make it a multi year event. And we finished a bike ride in March this year that Clint husband was on, and they launched, and it sold out for october 2026, it sold out within days of finishing, you know? And so there's, you know, there's, there's lots of continued opportunities there, but we need to look at the next five years, and we've got some exciting new directions that we'll take. And, yeah, that's good.

Ros: It's really exciting. I love that. You know, general population can also get involved. Yeah, and sponsor kids as well. Yeah, through the Hands Across the Water website, yeah, we will share all of the details on hands across the water. And I just wanted to say thank you very much today. I really appreciate you being here, and I love the work that you do. Yes, I will be back out on a bike ride. And who knows, maybe Clint and I will do one,

Peter: Do one together.

Ros: But I have to just leave you with this. So you know, we have to do the Southern Right? No, actually, we're not going to do the sunrise. The reason why I was going to say the southern ride is, you know how there's that one, that giant hill that takes, yes, I do, yeah, you'd know that very, very well with the enterprise you've done. I currently hold the title for the fastest up back here between Clint and I just so that you're aware that I am the fastest, even though he has written that right a couple of times. Yes, little bit of competition in family, but I look forward to it.

Peter: Competitions help. Thank you Ros.

Ros: Thank you so much.

Peter: My pleasure. Thank you.