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The Travel Industry Doesn't Have a Marketing Problem. It Has a Positioning Problem with Kelli Hayes Smith

 

Ros: Hi everybody, welcome back to the Travel Agent Achievers podcast. Today I have a very special guest. I am going to let her introduce herself to you. It is Kelly Hay Smith. Woohoo! Welcome, Kelly. I am so thrilled you are here. Thank you so much for joining me on the Travel Agent Achievers podcast. We're gonna talk all things, a little bit marketing today, which I'm really excited about. Thank you so much for joining me.

Kelli: Thank you so much for having me. Yes, I tell people all the time I have to talk about marketing because I'm a one-trick pony. That's all I got. But it's my it's you know, I'm okay at that one thing. So I'll take that. But yeah, so I am Kelly Hayes Smith. I have been in the travel industry since about 2016. I started out as a travel agent and went through went through it that way and then found out I liked marketing and yeah.

I mean, that's that's me. I am mom to a nineteen year old and an eight year old and I've been married for twenty two years. So yeah, it that's just kind of it feels like forever. Well, I was fifteen when we started dating, so I it really does feel like forever. but yeah, that's that's me in a nutshell.

Ros: Feels like forever. It's a bit like travel, my gosh, I love that. So you met in high school. so did my husband and I. But I dumped him when we were that age and he found me again when we were thirty. And he's like, Well, you always come back to good things.

Kelli: Mm. Yeah. I was fifteen. I love that story. That's incredible.

Ros: Gee, men love them. Hey, thank you again. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. You and I met at you know the Travefy Live and Travel Marketing Show Group conference a couple of months ago back in Las Vegas, which was really exciting and a huge shout out to Steph and Becky from Travefy, they were the ones that saw us both and were sort of walking past their booth and they insisted that we catch up. They're like, you two really need to connect, you need to collaborate, you need to do something together. So I love those girls and I love Travy. So I just thought, this is really exciting how they put that all together. So a huge shout out to Steph and Becky. I can't wait to see you both again and to Travefy for bringing us together. That's the first thing.

Kelli: I know I love that story. They were they were so excited and I I love them for that. And I they were absolutely right.

Ros: Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned that you started as a travel advisor. What made you move into marketing? You say you're a one-trick pony. I don't believe that is to be true. I know that you talk strategy. I know that you talk positioning, all of those sorts of things. So what made you move into marketing?

Kelli: Yes. So my days were spent a travel agent was a hobby for me. And I my days were spent scrubbing surgical cases. and I was working way too many call hours and I got pregnant. I had been a travel agent for several years. I got pregnant with our youngest son, and it took a very long time to get him. And I got pregnant with him and I decided I did not want to go back to the hospital after he was born. And so I'm like, I can make this full time. I got this. I can do this. And so I started and went full time and I did really great. That was 2018. I had a good year. I had an excellent year selling travel in 2019 for people to travel in 2020. And then nobody went anywhere. And what I found in that time period was I was still really good at marketing my travel business.

And I did not miss, and I did a lot of Disney travel. That was probably my biggest focus. and I did not miss dining reservations and getting up early for fast passes, because that's back in the day when we did all of that stuff. And I didn't miss doing that, but I stayed really good at marketing my business. And I one of the reasons I'm super passionate about host agencies and making sure that people are in good host homes for them is because I did not come from a good host home when it came to the travel industry. I did not have a good experience. And when I decided I wanted to pivot to marketing and I gave my resignation, there was a really unkind reception to that. And I was, I swore off the travel industry as I'm I'm like, I would I'm done. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna work in travel anymore. I'm not gonna do it.

And I went into marketing, especially social media, but then I started doing email marketing and building funnels and and pages and strategy. And I I worked with someone who sold crystals and a female general contractor. And I had all of these other businesses that I was running marketing for, but travel agents kept coming back to hire me and I was good at it. And I finally had a friend say, You've got to stop and like this is where you're really good. So you need to you need to do it.

And then I told myself, this is my favorite thing to tell people when I'm teaching marketing. Then I told myself, no, I can't do that. I can't niche down to just travel industry because there's not enough business there for that. I nobody travel there's not enough travel agents in the world for me to create a business just about travel agents. I can't do that. Turns out I was wrong. And I finally gave in and said, fine, I will just focus on travel agents in probably 2022, 2020, yeah, 2022.

And I took on clients. I worked in social media management and marketing strategy and then became a director of marketing for an education company in the travel industry. And then when I left that prom position, now I'm marketing manager at a host agency. So that that was that's kinda my journey that was probably longer than you wanted, but there you go.

Ros: No, that's awesome. I love the changes that you made and that you've always stayed true to yourself, looking after yourself. The changes that you made during challenging times. I mean, that's one thing that the industry, the travel industry. I mean, I've been with my host agency coming up to I think it's today actually. It's yesterday or today. for 17 years. But it has gone so fast.

Kelli: No way wow.

Ros: There are no two days the same. You will always come up against challenges. There is always going to be something happening. And I feel as though the time has just absolutely flown over the, you know, the last 17 years. I've been in the industry for a bit longer. But as you said, you stayed true to yourself. You continued to market. I love hearing you say that because that is one thing that I really doubled down on during the pandemic, and that I was also educating a lot of advisors on, is to get your systems and operations organized.

Kelli: Yes.

Ros: But stay present, stay visible, stay connected, stay curious. Of course, being in Australia, we we couldn't leave the island for two years. and it was very difficult for us to be able to even travel between states at times. So for us, everything stayed very local, but we all stuck with it. and hearing you also say niching down and just trying to stay within the travel industry.

Kelli: Yep, exactly.

Ros: It's one thing that I talk about as well with advisors is how many clients do you actually need? Like really, how many clients do you need to have 10,000, 20,000, 100,000 followers on your social media as an example, or having a smaller amount that stay connected and engaged and that you can really take care of and love up on. So I love hearing you say that. At what point? No, you go, you go. That's one thing.

Kelli: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's one thing. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, I'm sorry. No, I was just gonna say I have this conversation with people all the time. When they are upset about their view count, I'm always like, number one, if 30 people watched your story today, if 30 people walked in and sat down in your office and talked to you about travel, would you have been happy about it? Yes. Number two, if you get 10,000 views on something and 50% of those people were to put in a quote request.

Could you handle that? The answer to that is no. So let's like, let's calm down and actually pay attention to what we're building and stop worrying about those pieces because they don't really matter.

Ros: Exactly. The vanity metrics. Everybody feels like we need them. We need them. But I always say, if you don't have sales, you don't have a business. So we've got to get that funnel working to actually make it work specifically for you. my gosh, you and I talk on the same page. I love this. At what point did you realize that there was a problem that you wanted to solve, specifically in marketing to travel advisors?

Kelli: That's exactly right. A hundred percent. It's a great question. And I think really early on, I was guilty of a lot of the things that I tell people not to do now. one of those being that agents are constantly talking. So the industry has a bad problem about framing agents as doing a that they are that people who book with you are doing a favor for you. And we use this this phrase like

Ros: Yeah.

Kelli: It's free anyway. Or like using that as the value of you booking their trip. And I was guilty of that. And what I found was when I stopped talking about that my services were free, which also if I went back in time now, they would have never been free, but that was not the bag then, right? But if I had gone back in time and I did that, I wouldn't I I stopped talking about it. And when I stopped talking about my services being free, people started stopped treating me like not, I don't want to say like I was worthless, but that's not what I mean. But what I mean is that I wasn't providing a value. They started respecting my time more. They started respecting my boundaries more, and they started respecting my expertise more. When I stopped positioning it like the free thing was the value that I was providing them and instead of the expertise. And that's when I really started thinking, okay, maybe there's more to this, and maybe there's a different way.

Because everybody else is doing it this way. But when I see that when I made these changes, like behaviors changed, I I kind of wanted I kind of went down a squirrel hole about what else needed to be changed and what other positions should we change to make a difference in the way people react to us.

Ros: Yeah, which is also something that I read on your LinkedIn and it immediately made me stop. You said the travel industry doesn't have a marketing problem. It has a positioning problem. What do you mean by that?

Kelli: Such and honestly, it's so many places. That's one of them, right? Like agents all too often position themselves as free being their value. Their value is that there's not a fee. And that's of course for agents who don't charge a fee, but that is the wrong position to take. But it's also I see agents position themselves like they're marketing like a supplier and not like an agent. And I see them positioning themselves.

Almost like we're riding the fence. We're not going to give any opinion or any perspective. We're just going to put facts out into the world. And so the positioning is there's not a position. You have to take a stand on something and position yourself as the expert, but expertise is how someone views what you have what you know, right? And if they view what I know as a bunch of facts that they can equally get on Google.

My positioning is all wrong. But if I position myself with a perspective, if I position myself with an opinion, yes, some people are going to say, I don't agree with that opinion. So that's not my person. But the people who don't know what they don't know and they don't really have an opinion on that, but they they vibe with you, you have pulled them in in a bigger way. And there's a whole lot of difference in a travel influencer who's just showing beautiful resorts. And we can't position ourselves that way either. And there's a such a unique position that a travel agent has to take that is different than being a travel influencer or being a supplier. We have to respect our expertise, our knowledge, and our value. And if we don't do that, we've lost our our position in anything.

Ros:Yeah. So what do you think is the the difference then between positioning and marketing? Is it a combination of the the two to define who you are and make that stand to then promote?

Kelli: So the marketing is the marketing is getting it out there, but you have to have the positioning to be able to talk about it, right? The marketing is not the value. Your positioning is your value. Your marketing is how you talk about that value. And so you have to be able to talk about the value that you have. And so many agents don't know what that is. And so if we don't stand on that positioning, well, when it comes to it, first off, your positioning is really your viewpoint on things. Okay.

Your viewpoint on the value that you provide. If you don't know what value you provide, you fall back on to free. And that's what I see a lot of times. When we when they when I'm auditing somebody's socials and they're like, free, my services are free. You don't pay for me, blah, blah, blah. I stop and ask them, tell me what you do while I plan trips for people. What does that mean? And they can't describe what they do.

Which means they don't have the positioning because they don't know what that is. It's the same thing as when I don't really understand my value or I'm trying not to make any waves, positive or negative. I'm just trying to, you know, stay even keel. They position themselves like a supplier. And when I'm standing on that supplier positioning, I'm doing what I like to call loud marketing, right? The Royal Caribbeans of the world have millions of dollars in budget. I have not yet met a single travel agent who has the same budget as a Royal Caribbean has to spend on marketing. I've I've just not seen that yet, right? Royal and Disney and all of these companies, they can rely on loud marketing because they can scream it from the rooftops and they're gonna get enough people to come in. But the agents need clear marketing. And if they are screaming to the void,

Ros: That is cheap. Yeah.

Kelli: They aren't ever going to pull in enough people because they're not putting enough money out there to see for enough people to to be pulled in. And so if we're taking the position of the supplier and we're just showing pretty destination photos and giving facts about a resort, they can get that from the supplier. So I'm losing my positioning to the supplier. So I have to understand that I have to that that can't be my position either. Then from a travel influencer.

We're not getting paid like an influencer's getting paid. You don't get paid if you don't book the trip. You're getting paid the commission. You're not getting paid for views. You're not getting paid for clicks. And you're you may go on a fam and you may go on a sponsored trip here and there, but few and far between are you being put up at five star resorts and it's all free just for content. That's not that is also not your business model. So if you take the stance of the travel influencer,

Ros: My god.

Kelli:Yeah. No, you're not doing, you're also not making your money. You're not having the sales, like you said. So you have no business. So the positioning has to come from understanding where your value is, what your product is. And that is where I, that's where the supplier comes in because the supplier is not your product. You would be so surprised. I will ask people all the time and say, tell me what you sell. Well I sell vacations. No, you don't. I sell, or they'll say they'll get specific and be like, I sell river cruises and Africa. I'm like again, no, you don't.

And they don't know what their product is. Their product is their service, what they do. They can go buy that other stuff anywhere. They can even buy it at Costco. People can buy their vacations and toilet paper at the same place. Why are you positioning yourself like that supplier? That's not what you sell. So they have to understand their value, they have to understand their product, and they have to understand their business model. And your business model is your knowledge, your expertise, your perspective, and your opinion. And if you don't

Ros: Yeah.

Kelli: Talk about those things, your positioning is gone.

Ros: Hmm. So why why do advisors market like suppliers? So you're saying yes, it has to come back to positioning and value and who they are and the emotional stories and those sorts of things, but the why do advisors just market like suppliers?

Kelli: Mm-hmm. Because suppliers give them content and they want to hit that easy button. And I don't mean that to put down an advisor. I've been there, right? Like I've I've been an agent, I know what it's like. And when you're trying to wear all those hats, and I get it. But number one, we are the industry has taught us that suppliers are the product and not the agent. And so here's a library of content. All you have to do is copy paste it.

And put it out there on the internet. And if you build it, they will come. And it's completely untrue. Like I have seen the metrics on these services that are provided for free when they are handing over their logins and letting these people post for them. The metrics are terrible. They're terrible. And it's not doing any good for you. 

Ros: 
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli:And so I think that's the number one thing. I think the other thing is we're afraid to admit our value. I really do believe it all comes back to understanding what you do and what your value is and understanding your product. And I think the reason that they they fall back on the suppliers is number one, again, the contents provided for them. And number two, understanding what the product is. You have to sit down and build out a strategy on that. You can't just say, I sell Africa and here's a bunch of African reports resorts, or here's a bunch of safari photos I took.

Or here's a bunch of safari photos that I was sent to. And look at this beautiful lion and all of the things that you can do in Africa. People know on safari they can see lions. You don't have to tell them that. So you have to, and then the other thing is social media can be a scary place to show up. I I am unfortunately have been victim to yes, I have a high file account. I tell people all the time I went viral one time. 

Ros: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kelli: My high follower account never once led to a sale. Never, not once it only my sales came from community that I built brick by brick, not by going viral, but that's beside the point. but it can be a scary place. And so putting your opinion out there or your perspective out there is scary. And so same as I was, as scared to niche down because there wouldn't be business, they're afraid of upsetting somebody or offending somebody. And I'm I'm all for leaving certain things.

Ros: Yeah. Yep.

Kelli: Off the internet. But if your opinion is I wouldn't choose this cruise line, I would choose this cruise line. And that's what you live by, then you should tell people that. And that's okay. And you can't be afraid of saying, well, they would, I don't sell, I don't really recommend Carnival, but this person might want carnival. So I can't say I wouldn't recommend Carnival because I don't want the person who would want carnival to not come to like we can't if and as I like to say sometimes, we can't shudd ourselves to death. We have to be able to stand on something and have an opinion or else we just kind of fall into the void. And I think that there's some fear behind that as well.

Ros: A hundred percent. I think that there's two things there. One is definitely the fear of other people's opinions, other people's ideas around what you should be doing, as you say. It's the shulda, wulda, coulda. It's you know, the the pushback. Whether it comes from peers or inside the industry or people in your close circle, I know for a fact that a number of advisors won't show up authentically on social media because of that. And it's a a podcast episode that I did recently about haters and it and it hurts. We are human at the end of the day. And I I love, you know, the for me, everything is about collaboration over competition. There is enough business for everybody to go around. And as we spoke about right at the beginning, how many clients do you actually need?

Kelli: 
Does. Mm-hmm. Same. Yeah.

Ros: I was having a conversation with an advisor recently, and she said, Roz, I've got 50 clients that I absolutely love. And that is the business that I need and what? I will open up when you know one person moves on or you know, whatever happens. But she said, that is it. I don't need thousands of clients. And you know, you know, everybody is going to be different, whether they are selling.

Kelli: Yeah. Now

Ros: Carnival or Regent Seven C's or whoever it might be, every client is different, every business is going to be different. And so there will be different scales of what people need in order to have a sustainable business. But I g I get the fear. So that's one thing. The other side of that is then time.

Kelli: Yeah.

Ros: So to come up with the strategy, to come up with the ideas, to be writing the content, to find the photos or the images and piece it all together, I think for a lot of advisors, it becomes another, I've just got to do this when I I really want to focus on the clients or preparing the experience or I've got 67 steps in processing this whole booking. Where can I find the time in order to promote myself in a way that works? So what do you say to those? I mean

Kelli: Yes. Where do I do this? Absolutely.

Ros: We've mentioned the one thing already, but what do you say for the time perspective?

Kelli: Yeah, well, so I I totally agree. And and I do think that's why they fall back on the supplier content, right? Like, and that's that that lands there. It's an easy button, and I'm not trying to put it down. Like, right. It done is better than perfect, and I agree with that. But here's the other thing that we are doing is we are separating ourselves from the content. The job is your content. As you're doing those 67 steps for this booking.

Ros: Yeah. Yeah. It becomes in easy. Yeah. And it's like I'm still visible. I'm still visible. I'm still there. Yeah.

Kelli: Record it and talk about it. Make the content part of what you're doing and it don't separate it from the two. So I have two sayings that I say often be the product and be the content. And if you can do those two things, then you now have perspective and positioning because you're talking about what you're doing. You are showcasing that in real time. You're not having to separate yourself and create that separately. You are doing it as you go. And again, yeah, you got to sit down and do it. But here's the other thing. Let go of it being perfect. Let stop worrying about being perfect or like it has to be this beautiful like this beautiful picture or stop spending hours on Canva trying to make everything like beautiful and just create the content. If you if you don't have time to create five posts a week, good create two. That's 10 times 10 posts a month.

Ros: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli: So stop, you know, that's the other thing is if you have to choose between using supplier content and the two hours that it takes you to do that a month, take two hours and record 10, 30 second videos of things that you're doing. Video yourself working as you're doing those 67 things and then do a very fast voiceover on top of that. Those are the pieces that will give you your time back because your content is literally happening as you do your job. So stop separating yourself from it.

Ros: Got you. Add it into your sixty seven steps, everyone. It it becomes part of the process. What's just one more thing? It's one more thing. And time I hear you with that. It is it's something to bridge the gap over. I think that that's a a big thing.

Kelli: Exactly. Just re record it's one what's one more thing?It is. I I do and I I under I do understand. I promise I do. But I think that here's the deal. You have to also, when it comes to strategy, decide what your marketing's for. Is your marketing so that someone it and this is on social. We're talking about this on social, right? Not everybody's goal is to have is is to have social media be a source of leads. If networking or in person is

Ros: Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Kelli: Is your content, then maybe you do rely on supplier marketing simply because you are putting something up there, but you're putting your effort and your time in another form of marketing. If the only marketing you're doing is supplier content, you're going to miss out. But if you are showing up and doing other things in person or whatever that may be, now you have a marketing plan. And so that's the other part I want people to understand is you don't have to do all the things and be all the places.

Make your choices.

Ros: Yeah, I love that. And and this is where positioning definitely comes into play. And it's really interesting to hear you say that from, you know, a marketing perspective, that it doesn't have to be social media. It everybody can be in so many different places. It's about where you're showing up. And what I come from as well is a another angle. So advisors will often come to me saying that they need more inquiries. But when we in fact unpack it, as we've said before, it's rarely the number of inquiries that's the issue. It's that they haven't clearly articulated why someone should choose them, which is what you're talking about with value. They're absolutely brilliant at what they do, but they haven't communicated that value in a way before the client even reaches out. Is that also what you mean by positioning?

Kelli: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because your positioning is all about why someone would choose you. And you have to be uniquely you. If you are lined up and you just don't stand out, you're not you're not just appealing to everyone. You're standing out to no one. Right. And so I think that when you ha you have to explain that value.

And you can't do that until you know who your ideal client is. Just like you said a minute ago, that every business is different, right? Someone who is looking for a budget-friendly vacation and somebody who's looking for a luxury vacation, even though that term is very subjective, have very different needs in what they see as valuable from someone. An empty nester or retired couple has different needs when it comes to what they would see as valuable to a family with young children.

Ros: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli: And so you have to also outline that ideal client first before you can pick that positioning, before you can outline and and really focus on your value. And again, I think that people start posting because they think that if they post, it they're gonna have sales. And we kind of get backwards because we haven't outlined those pieces. We haven't outlined the positioning that we're gonna take when it comes to the value that we provide. And we haven't outlined the ideal client. So we can't really say what the value pro we're gonna provide is and the problems we're gonna solve are, but we're posting. And so then it's frustrating because the posts aren't getting any traction and nobody's nobody's watching it and nobody's engaging on it. And we have this idea of vanity metrics and we see what somebody else is doing because travel agents follow travel agents and they are seeing what everybody else is doing and they're seeing, and all of this other stuff just starts happening and we cycle into this like cyclone of panic, and I'm not doing it, and I'm not getting it, and all these things. And we've just started at the wrong place, and then we are comparing ourselves to people who are far.

Ros: Yeah.

Kelli: Ahead of us, not in success, but in time. And we've lost perspective by that point, to put that in a different position. And and now we're just kind of in this hole where it's like nothing I do works and there's no point in the first place.

Ros: Comparisonitis. That's a word for you. But one thing absolutely hearing you say that is, and I will share it with advisors as well, is stop comparing.

The front end of somebody else's business, which is their marketing, with the back end of your own. So hearing you say that, where we get in our heads as an advisor to feel like, my gosh, they're absolutely crushing it over here. I'm doing so bad. That's because you're comparing the front end. You have no idea what's happening behind the scenes of that other advisor, of that travel business. Who knows? They could be absolutely panicking or freaking out about something completely else going on.

Kelli: Done.

Ros: Or may not be getting back to inquiries, may not be doing all of these other things. You have no idea as an advisor and making those assumptions is only going to make you feel worse. So stop comparing the front end of somebody else's business with the back end of your own. We've got to play in our own lanes here and get over that comparisonitis. that just it it gets me every single time. And I I don't know what that trigger is.

Kelli: Yes. Yeah. It it does me too.

Ros: To snap somebody out of it. It's something that I'm consistently working on. I do it myself. What do you do?

Kelli: Well, and I mean, I tell people to mute people all the time. I'm like, if you I mute people. If I start questioning my worth or I should be doing this, or I'm comparing myself to them, they get muted. And it's not on them. It's not about them. It's about protecting my peace. It's about protecting and I mean, I do this across the board. If someone has hurt my feelings or if someone ha whatever, I I block or mute because you're not gonna be allowed into my headspace. But also if I am comparing myself to someone, and there's several people in the social media space that I have muted, not so much in the travel industry per se, but like people early on when I started in the marketing, I a very prominent, I've told this story before, but a very prominent influencer in the social media marketing space commented or on my DMs and said, if you don't stop saying y'all, you'll never make anything of yourself. You sound like you sound stupid. And I blocked this person and have never unblocked. but I'm like, nope, you don't get headspace. But I do the same thing even when that person's never said anything to me. Because if I find myself going to their content to see what they're doing, I am very quickly becoming an imitator of theirs and I'm no longer being inspired by something. And there's a big difference in imitation and inspiration.

And if I find myself seeking out their content to see what they're doing or to judge myself on, they I they have to go. I can't allow that into my headspace. And so I will I use the mute button like nobody's business because I am not going to allow that to shake me up because now I'm no longer me. And the value of me is me.

Ros: Yep. I love that. All right everybody stuck getting the mute the mute buttons out. Yeah, you have to.

Kelli: I know. I know it you have to. And I tell people all the time, mute me. If what I'm saying is stressing you out, mute me, block me, whatever, unfollow me. I don't want to find the person that inspires you and stick with that. And that's okay. You don't I'm not gonna be for everybody and that's okay, like that's okay. Permission slip here. Go do it.

Ros: Yes. Yeah. I love it. my gosh. You and I could can talk for hours today. I know that, but we're not going to. We're going to jump back into it. So positioning. no, no, no. How does an advisor know that they've positioned themselves really well?

Kelli: I know, sorry. So I'd say the first thing is you need to look at your last nine posts. I don't care if it's Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, X, threads, emails. Look at what you're putting out into the world. Is it interchangeable with anybody else? Do you see you in this marketing? Can you see yourself? Is your face in it? That's a big question I'm gonna have. Okay. But also are your opinions there?

Ros: Right. Okay. Yep.

Kelli: Does it sound like you wrote it? Or does it sound like someone who speaks a very different verbiage wrote it? Does it sound like the way that you would talk to a girlfriend? Because LinkedIn, I say it like this: Facebook and Instagram are business casual, LinkedIn's business professional, but it's still you, right? It still should have your vibe. If you disappear in your content, you are not positioned. If there are no

Ros: Mm-hmm.

Kelli: opinions, if your perspective is not in there. If it sounds like Google or Chat GPT, and I'm not just talking about using AI to help you. I'm talking about if it's something that they could pick up in a fact base, there's no emotion, there's no like a like point of view here, then you are not positioned. You have to be visible, both your face and your voice, how you feel, how you think, how

How you make decisions. Potential clients deserve to know how you help make a decision, not just what resorts you there's five resorts in Cancun. Great. Well, how do you feel about these? How would you guide someone to choose those? Your clients deserve to know how you think about those things. And so if those things are not there in any of your marketing and any of your content, you have no positioning.

Ros: Yeah. You just touched on something else, which is AI. And it's one thing that I've also seen you say previously as well. If AI replaces an advisor, they were never positioned correctly. Can you unpack that for me? Yeah.

Kelli: Yeah. I can. And I'm talking about it more than a marketing position, to be honest. Like people are always saying, and I I've said this to the world, not just advisors, right? If I'm talking to someone about travel agents and I work in the travel industry and I am asked all the time, I'm like, you do what you help travel agents? I didn't know travel agents still existed. It's ex- I don't I that's the first thing people ask me. But if they

Ros: It still existed, yes.

Kelli: And they'll say, AI can do that. I'm like, if AI can do that, then you're working with the wrong travel agent. Because AI can pull up facts, sure. It can ask you questions, sure, but it's not checking schedules regularly, not on a normal basis, not, you know, it's not doing those things. So if you are afraid of losing your job or of not having clients anymore because AI will replace you, then you are not doing it now.

I was literally sitting, this has been a couple of years ago. I mean, I'm not gonna draw, I'm not gonna name drop anything, but I heard someone from a stage speak about like AI allowing AI to plan their clients' itineraries. And I was just horrified because I'm like, then what's the point? How can we sit here and tell people not to let AI do this if we are letting AI do this? Right. And

The idea is if you disappear within AI, if they can't see a difference in what you're talking about and what Chat GPT would recommend to them, then you're not positioned. If you're not going through here's the questions that I asked before I guide something, and here's the sentence that a client told me that made me realize that the resort they had been ready to put a deposit down on was the wrong one. If you're not talking about things like that in your marketing, then you're not ready to, you're not positioned. You're not ready to get out there and talk about your business. So I read something recently about AI and I and I've tested a little bit. And it's so funny because if you do something and let's say AI is like, this is my favorite subject line for this email. And you're like, yeah, no, I really like this one. Actually you're right. I agree with you. It's always making you happy, right? As a travel agent,

Ros: Yes.

Kelli: If you aren't willing to say, I know this is the resort that you really think you're gonna love based on those pictures, but I'm actually gonna, I'm really gonna try to encourage you to change your mind. And here's why, AI would never do that. They would never it would never challenge your assumption. You have to be willing to challenge the assumptions. And so if you're not doing that on a regular basis with your marketing and with your clients, then you are gonna disappear into AI and you don't have any positioning to stand on.

Ros: Yeah. no. Absolutely. I completely agree with you on that. And it, I mean, it's it's great for certain things, using it to a certain level, 100%. But yeah, it can never replace that human connection, the emotional intelligence. And I agree, it always wants to make you happy. I mean, that's how it was initially built and designed was as a a pleaser because people get hooked into that. They want that positivity, but it makes mistakes, it will.

Kelli: Right, exactly.

Ros: show up and I mean classic example. we've just returned from Europe. My husband had to turn around and head to the Philippines for a work thing. His flight was delayed out of Sydney for six hours. He then had a different connecting flight. I mean if we had a used AI in order to be booking his whole trip all over there, you know, to get over there, that would have completely fallen apart. Now he always leaves travel to me.

Kelli: Yes.

Ros: The one time that he did it, he created, you know, the trip, the road trip using AI. And within two hours, I was already all over it because it had stuffed up a whole lot of things. And I didn't know that he'd used AI. I thought he'd used his human intelligence. No. But when he was at the airport, I was the one that had to get on and re

Kelli: Yep.

Ros: You know, schedule flights, book a hotel for him when he landed in Manila, make sure that the transfers were there to pick him up the next morning, and make it as seamless as possible to reduce any stress for him. Now, from a positioning perspective, those sorts of stories are what also helps the clients. Exactly.

Kelli: That's that's your content. Exact that's that's what I'm saying. Be the content. That's the that's the content. That is the content. Every single time that you are fixing something, that you are solving a problem, that's a time to get on and do the yap, as they call it, right? Like get in front of the camera, talk to it and be like, this just happened. Let me tell you how I just saved my client eight hours at the airport. And then here's what we're gonna go into. But it's what you're already doing. Like I don't.

Ros: Be the content. Yep.

Kelli: Feel like you I don't feel like I know you don't need to come up with content. You're already doing it. Talk about the proposals that you're doing. Why are you choosing these three resorts for this client? Why would you not choose? Here's three records resorts I recommended and one I absolutely did not. Why? Those are things. And then you know what else people are afraid to put this out there on the internet? This is this is this drives me crazy. Because they're afraid they're gonna give away their best secrets.

Ros: Yes.

Kelli: And this one drives me nuts. I'm like, not if you're not giving facts and tips, because if you're giving hacks, facts, and tips, then sure, you are giving away your best tips for crap. And they sure they'll just save it. But if you're if you're actually just talking about your perspective and why you chose this for a family and you're making it re making people realize that what you do is not one size fits all, but it's one of a kind.

Then they need you to do their one of a kind thing because two no two families are exactly the same. And so if you actually do it from perspective, if you actually position yourself as the expert in this, now they need you. You're showing them why they need you and you're not giving away your best stuff. But people are like, I can't tell people what question I asked because then they'll know that. And then somebody's gonna steal it. I'm like, somebody's gonna steal it regardless. Like just

Ros: Exactly. It's the internet. Be real.

Kelli: Exactly. Like and again, let's be real. Pinterest, there's probably an answer for everything on Pinterest. It's also about the value of you doing it, right? Again, if you le if you are not being positioned as just knowing a lot of stuff about King Coon, but you are being positioned as someone with value, decision making, and service providing. Now I don't have to worry about that because I'm not showcasing my value as here's a free service with a bunch of facts.

Ros: Yeah, yeah. love this. I love this. Well Kell Kelly, if somebody is listening to this today and they thought, you know, I know that I'm guilty of marketing like everyone else, where should they start?

Kelli: Yeah.

Kelli: Well, I would love for them to come find me on Instagram. I'm actually at Kelly Hayes Smith with an I, Kelly with an I, on every platform. Somehow, some way, nobody else had those usernames. So Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Lick LinkedIn, threads, all of it. But really and truly my home base is Instagram. And then I do have a podcast called the Social Takeoff Podcast. It has been on hiatus because I have been moving. so I started really strong in the first couple months of January and then we had to pack up our house. And then I today I'm in new mic and headphones because my mic did not fare the move super well. So yeah, it's fine. It wasn't a great one. Anyway, so it was a good excuse to buy a new mic, but but so it is actually coming back. I recorded some episodes this evening and it'll be back in in August on Tuesdays, but

Ros: Absolutely.

Kelli: So those two places I would set suggest Instagram and the social takeoff podcast is where you'll find me the most. And then I am marketing manager and do marketing training and answer questions and stuff within our host agency, Legato.

Ros: Love it. Can people work with you directly?

Kelli: My calendar's not open yet because I just started in April and so I'm getting some some baseline stuff finished for Legato, the actual company, and doing their marketing. But that will happen eventually within that host. It is, yes. So much happening down there. Yes. Instagram's for you see me say anything. Yeah, absolutely.

Ros: Down the track. So everybody keep an eye out on Instagram. Listen to the podcast. Yeah, I love that. You have some great content as well that is always coming out. So thank you for sharing. what is one thing that every advisor or an advisor could do this week, then if they wanted to just take action and do something from this podcast?

Kelli: I appreciate that. So much so do you. I would say, think about the last crisis that you managed. And I want you to lead that with the hook. Here's how I, whatever, for this client. And I don't want you to record a video. I don't want you to go hunt for anything. I want you to take a picture of yourself sitting at your desk, selfie style with your phone, nothing else. One picture is all you need for a whole carousel. And you add your text directly in Instagram.

Ros: Mm-hmm.

Kelli: And if you'll tag me or share it with me, I'll share it on my stories. Cause I want to know what you're doing. Yeah. I do. I wanna know.

Ros: Love that. Yeah, we want to we want to know what everyone's doing, tag us and I love that. Just even for myself, when I see somebody take action, it is something to celebrate. And as business owners and as travel professionals, we should be celebrating and really working through how to build your business across so many different ways. Marketing, sales, operations, get yourself organized, build it because you know the clients are there and and people want to work with us.

So get out there, everyone. I have a feeling, Kelly, that you and I have only scratched the surface today. 

Kelli: They do. That's right. No. I know. I know. I I'm gonna have to I don't I have not ever done guests before on the social takeoff, but that's gonna change because I have met some fabulous women in the industry. And also sometimes it's a heavy lift doing it by yourself all the time. And so I think that I think that you have to come see me over there too.

Ros: Definitely come see you. We could continue to talk for hours. I'd love to get you inside the achievers mastermind as well to give some practical tips because I think that there are so many practical things that we can unpack together to help everybody take action. And as you say, give your stuff away because people want to learn and you know there's always more. Honestly, there is always more.

Kelli: Yes. I would love that. Yeah. You know that that old there's a quote, I don't know who said it. I probably should know this, but it says they can steal your recipe, but their sauce won't taste the same. And that's the that's exactly what it's gonna be, right? Like if if somebody takes your content or they save something and they plan their own trip, it's not the same because you're not included. If you make your value, your service, the secret ingredient, no matter what they take.

Ros: Mm-hmm.

Kelli: It won't be the same. So you would just have to position yourself that way.

Ros: I love that. And on that note, Kelly, yeah, I that's it. All right. That's that's the that's the snippet that we'll use on social media. I love it.

Kelli: I know. Mic drop. We're done. Cut.
That's it. Cut Yeah, exactly. And I can't do any better than that, so might as well quit while we're ahead. But no, that's that's the way I feel about it. Thank you so much.

Ros: No, I love it. Thank you. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here today on the Travel Agent Ativas podcast. I am thrilled that we had the opportunity to meet in person. Now connect here. There is so much more to come. I love watching all that you're doing and how you're helping the industry really elevate your strategy, your personality. You are a a giver and

Kelli: Yes.

Ros: You know, like mind minded people all stick together. So thank you so much for everything that you're doing for the industry.

Kelli: Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so, so much.

Ros: All right, everybody, what an incredible conversation we've just had with Kelly, and I really appreciate her and everything that she's doing for the industry. Please make sure you check her out on social media. We'll add all the links to her Instagram, social media, where you can find her. Keep an eye out for how you'll be able to work with her in the future as well. And if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'm happy to also connect you and and look forward to hearing what you're doing and your positioning.

In the travel industry to get more clients into your business. All right, everybody, thanks for listening and I will speak to you soon. Bye for now.